[ ARC forum 2 ]
Written by Richard at 22 Dec 2001 12:18:59: Re: I need some advice, Please Help Me !
As an answer to: Re: I need some advice, Please Help Me ! written by Halfclip at 22 Dec 2001 07:50:16:
>It is my understanding that the medical community agrees that the stretching and creams does not solve all phimosis problems, and that in some cases, it does not garantee re-occurance of phimosis. It also does not remove scarred tissue.
I think you're replying to me, not Jim. I haven't read all the literature in depth, but from what I have read it seems the medical profession hasn't done the research and WE JUST DON'T KNOW what the relative merits of different treatments for tight foreskins are, in the general population rather than the anecdotal evidence people bring to this forum.
>If one has a fairly severe case of phimosis, or scarred foreskin, is it fair to suggest the non surgical treatment ?
>As far as the "quick fix" issue. Quick fix does not imply quick decision. If the male, after careful consideration, decides that getting the foreskin shortened will profvide him with a better outcome than stretching it, and as a side effect, will give him a fully functioning penis faster, is there anything wrong with this ?Well, yes. It's like making a cake. When you're making the cake mix, you add the water a little at a time. If you do it too quickly, it'll turn to mush. So you work on the principle that you can always add a bit more, but you can't take it away once it's added. Non-reversibility. Once it's been snipped, it ain't never coming back.
So, it would seem to me that in addition to the principle of fully-informed consent, there should be the idea of trying treatments by working through a list starting with the least radical.
>Assuming that the strethcing were a viable solution for this person, we can argue on the benefits/disadvantages of having a short or long foreskin because in the end, this is what the male is faced with as a choice: stretch and retain long foreskin, or get a partial circ and get a short foreskin.
Stretching isn't just about opening the diameter of the foreskin. Successful stretching should result in a change in the shape of the thing too, so that it no longer has the "long" overhang.
>We are not talking about a radical circumcision that removes all of the inner foreskin, frenulum and makes the dick so tight it is stunted in length. We are talking about a small cosmetic circumcision that shortens the foreskin to a more cosmetically pleasing length and in doing so removes the phimosis.
Sure. But I take issue with the idea of "cosmetic" change. You seem to be conflating the two: on the one hand it is possible that surgery is necessary in some cases to treat a tight foreskin and enable its owner to have sex without pain. That's very different from altering the foreskin for aesthetic reasons.
>If the person originally woudl have prefered not having a circumcision because he though it was an all or nothing thing, but upon being presented with the option of a partial circumcision, the person likes the idea very much, is there anything wrong with this ?
No, but see above my remarks on irreversibility and trying less radical treatments first.
>I can understand that some may be purist and consider any penis which has had a scalpel anywhere near it to be "mutilated". But these people should understand that some people have no problems with having the body improved surgically, especially if that solves a nagging problem.
Yes, I suppose it's fair to say I am a purist. But neither do I think people are mutilated if they're circumcised as adults. But again you're conflating two senses of the word "improve". Surgery to correct the problem of painful intercourse is one kind of improvement. Surgery simply to change the look of something is a different kettle of fish.
>Do poeple who oppose so vehemently circumcision also oppose piercings and tatoos or weird hairstyles/hair colouring ? We are not discussing decising to have a newborn circumcised, we are discussing about an adult choosing cosmetic surgery in a non-kneejerk fashion with informed decision making method.
I am not as vehement as some people here :-) Nor am I confusing infant circumcision with adult. My opinion matters not so far as piercings, tattoos etc etc. go. My point is merely that impatience with a less radical method saddens me, when the general principle underlying good practice in surgery should be don't chop bits off unless it's medically necessary.
Richard