[ ARC forum 2 ]
Written by Will - UK at 14 Jan 2003 22:59:18: Questions from Jim
As an answer to: Re: Psychological Effects of Circumcision written by Jim at 13 Jan 2003 16:19:59:
Hellp Ji,
>Will, how many do you think you have treated that have brought up this issue?
Three that I am able to remember who were done against their will as an older child and, of course, the one Jewish lad who was at war with his parents as they tried to force thw Jewish religion on him.
Keep in mind that in our culture, being circumcised puts a boy odd man out, which in the US would be just the opposite. I think being the odd circ'd lad in the changing room is a bit more accepted here than being uncircumcised is in the US. Most boys here, seeing a round head, have a secret terror the same fate might befall them and have a bit of pity on the lad and understand it was done for medical reasons - however ill-advised that decision was when made by parents and doctor.
> I'm also curious how the subject comes up.
Not as a primary cause of the problem, but offered as a "proof" that his parents have abandoned his safe-keeping or that his opinion doesn't matter and is never taken into consideration.
> Do you know for a fact that the RIC victims just seem to pass it off, or is
> that your own feeling?No, I've had cut boys mention that they didn't like being different "down there" but weren't pissed off at the state of their willy, just that however it was, it was different.
> Can you be sure that a subject has accepted the event, or could it be hidden
> because at the time of its happening, he could not interpret what was going
> on?Well, that's the tick, isn't it? We just don't know what the cognative power or ability to recall is in an infant. Certain;y, having part of the most sensitive part of your body amputated without anesthesia has to rank as one of the top traumatic events of your life. I have talked to the odd man on the web who says he remembers his RIC. Who am I to say he does or doesn't? Other medical practitioners would scoff at him and say it's rubbish, yet they have no more scientific basis to say it's false than he does to say it's true. I am reminded of the poet Wordsworth (though I may botch a word or two due to memory) who wrote, many years ago.....
Our birth is but a beginning
Our soul that rises with us, our life's star,
hath had elsewhere its setting and cometh from afarNot in utter nakedness, nor in total forgetfulness
but trailing clouds of glory do we come, from God, who is our home.> What I'm wondering is if feelings of mistrust of his protectors could be
> present, but the cause might be unknown. Is this something you have tried to
> uncover?Dunno, on an RIC case, I'm not sure the individual could identify it. Certainly, by the age of three or four, absolutely by five, I would say it could well be the case. I haven't persued it as a topic but accepted it for what it was presented as, a marker in their perception of a larger problem.
> Several years ago, I witnessed a man (let's call him Mark) of approximately
> 30-35 years of age speak of recurrent dreams in which a goat was eating him.
> The dreams started when he was a small child. One day out of the blue, his
> grandmother told him about how greatly distressed he was by his bris. He was
> screaming for hours after the event because of the severe pain he had
> endurred. As we know, it is a common practice for the Mohel to take the
> little penis that he has just cut into his mouth to suck some blood out of
> it. Mark's investigation led to the discovery that the Mohel had done this to
> him, and that this man also had a long beard, much like that of a goat.
> Eventually this led to a interpretation that his recurring nightmares were a
> replay of his eighth day of life.Fascinating. Dunno, who's to say it isn't a true memory of his bris? As a wee lad, 4 or 5, I always slept with my ears covered by the duvit, because I was afraid that a bear would come during the night and nibble them of! Haven't a clue where that came from, but if I find out, I'll be the first to share it with you. It came from somewhere.