[ ARC forum 2 ]

Re: Plain Truth.

Written by AJ at 27 Feb 2003 23:37:21:

As an answer to: Plain Truth. written by Paul B. at 27 Feb 2003 20:30:58:

>I have purposely refrained from saying it is an essential part of the penis, because it is perfectly obvious that sex can occur without it, but simply much less satisfactorily.

Interesting speculation, Paul. Are you circumcised or just going by what you have been told? Besides, pleasure is pretty subjective and plenty of objective studies don’t back up your presumption, though perhaps a few do – albeit from oft-questionable resource i.e. anti-circ sites etc. Anyway, just being picky there...let's move on...

>There is no need whatsoever to "eroticise the foreskin", because as part of the penis, it is already, inseparably, erotic, just as the glans is, the clitoris, or the breasts.

So you are saying anything to do with the penis is not a fetish? Then, back to my original question, how does that make the Circlist people any different from you guys, since your colleagues often propose that they, the Circlist people, get some sexual gratification from a circumcised penis and yet in turn some of your colleagues receive similar gratification towards an uncircumcised penis? Though, it should be noted, your colleagues use the term “fetish” to describe the people at Circlist, which, according to your criteria and above is an inaccurate label.

>Sexual mutilations are equally obviously, neither in the remotest of circumstances necessary, nor conducive to normal sexuality.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but you are referring to circumcision as “sexual mutilation”? So, from your perspective, you are saying that circumcision is a sexual act? That’s strikes me as bizarre. What does that have to do with the subject at hand? I am asking what the difference is between Circlist people are anti-circ people in regards to “erotising” the penis – uncut or cut (whatever your preference may be), and trying to understand how you can justify using different labels to describe what is essentially the same motivation, albeit with different preferences.

>I have no qualms about including in this category, piercings and infibulations. Those who claim it "increases the stimulation" may well be accurately describing their particular personal perceptions, but are clearly in the category of "fetishists", exactly as those who claim a woman wearing high heels "increases the stimulation".

Ah, so something that most people would perhaps consider a “turn on”, you would refer to as a fetish – though not when it comes to the penis – except when it’s people from Circlist?

>And circumcision is amongst, if not singularly, the oldest of sexual mutilations. But that in no way gives it respectability, any more than that even older practice, murder.

What’s respectability to do with the topic at hand? I’m not trying to debate with you the ethical issues involved with child circumcision or if it’s respectable. I just want to know how you are different from the people at Circlist (which your colleagues would suggest are aroused by a circumcised penis), while your colleagues are aroused by an uncircumcised one.

>So it can hardly be clearer. Having sex is erotic - that is axiomatic. Hacking someone's sex organs so they function less than normally, is anti-erotic.

I’ve never looked through the Circlist site. (Yes, Jim, I once posted a link the site for someone’s research into the subject because I got the address from Yahoo and didn’t look at the rest of site…just in case you want to regurgitate that old argument.) But from what I’m reading you are suggesting a separate issue – you are saying that some people from Circlist are aroused by the actual act of circumcision? Which is a completely different issue and claim and not relevant to the original line of questioning. In past instances your colleagues have suggested that they (Circlist people) eroticise the circumcised penis and that is considered by them to be a fetish. So back to my original point: If they have a fetish about the circumcised penis how are some anti-circ people any different (though with a preference for an uncircumcised penis)?

Thanks for your input.


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